The Great Expectations
- By admin
- 2013, 14 October
- 26 Comments
The past two weeks brought enough frustration to last us until Christmas. All mostly in connection with the heating system components supply and roofing plastics. Our great expectations went unmet and ASSUMptions failed. All eventually was back on track but not without endless hours of Internet research and numerous phone calls.
Two weeks ago I finished our last post prophesying the return of the hot water… Today, alas, there are still no burning logs to gaze at for the lack of a wood burner, and there is no hot shower to take after getting completely frozen and drenched spending a day insulating the roof in freezing rain and northerly winds… On top of that our camping stove ran out of gas half way through cooking last night… Luckily it was only a veggie curry, which turned out just as good when al-dente. Today, as yesterday, all we have to look forward to is yet another freezing shower, followed by an hour of clenching a hot water bottle to get warm. Ahh, I miss those long hot sunny summer days!
The basic utilities of the 21st century will not be featuring at the Ollibees for at least another two weeks, simply because the huge choice of products made the decision-making process far too long and windy and dependent on way too many factors… This was also coupled with the fact that the heat store manufacturers draw up lots of wonderful drawings of interconnected heating systems that all wonderfully sing and dance together in perfect unison and harmony. Yet the minute one starts digging deeper one comes across many gaps… Andy the Plumber, a bundle of patience and perseverance, has done a great job in the end designing a heating system for us that at last instils confidence in all, including us, the manufacturers and Andy himself.
The thermal store is at the very core of the system. It is tailor-made to take into account the individual household requirements, based on the heating sources available and the household’s heating energy demands. The cylinder will be fit to take in hot water sources from four different feeds:
- Two solar thermal panels. This is the primary source available all year around.
- A multi-fuel wood burner with a back boiler. This is the secondary source mainly used during the colder months when the fire is lit.
- A gas boiler. This will be used as back-up only, whenever there is not enough heat from the solar and when the wood burner is not lit.
- Immersion heating (electricity). This is only if all of the above ever choose to fail.
The total cost may outweigh any immediate savings in fossil fuel costs but this was not the top reason we went for this hybrid system. The main reasons were:
- Taking advantage of the free / readily-available heat sources : sunlight and fireplace heat
- Contributing towards the conservation of the finite fossil fuel (natural gas)
- Reducing reliance on the main grid
The solar thermal panels should be eligible for a cash back of a few hundred quid when we apply for it in Spring 2014 as per of the Renewable Heat Incentive from the government. It’s a shame then that the Green Deal we had been so eagerly awaiting for turned out to be just a money-making scheme where those who cannot afford to invest in the first place are offered a loan at too high an interest rate to be even faintly attractive… 🙁
Back to the house.
Have you ever thought of becoming a millionaire?! If so, then look no further than fascias and soffits! There are hundreds of thousands of houses in need of a major refurb and the same number of new-builds in planning, all in need of the stuff! By targeting those who are not too keen on the off-the-shelf white tacky glossy stuff – you can charge an outrageous premium without having to explain yourself! The quotes I got for Anthracite Grey wood-grain finish fascias we chose to match our windows and doors beggars belief! I could have bought a small car or taken a plane to Kazakhstan once a month for the next 12 months for that price! Surely it’s only a few meters of plastic!!!! The leadtime was four weeks too… Not only would this hyper expensive UPVC plastic have a serious impact on the total budget, it would also set back the chippies and the roofer already lined up for their jobs over the next few weeks. So, Anthracite Grey got stricken off our list and replaced with a more wallet-friendly black wood-grain finish delivered to us directly from by the manufacturer three days after order placement and to everyone’s delight. Voila!…. And as an afterthought, – until three weeks ago I did not know my fascias from my soffits. Today I will name you every single component this roofing finish consists of and I can even become your personal quantitative surveyor should you decide to replace yours. 🙂
Another major panic in the past two weeks was the wood burning stove with the back boiler. Not only had we nearly run out of choices for back boiler stoves, but we were potentially in real danger of not having any water heating source in the house until after Christmas!!! Our original choice was the Cove 2B from Charnwood which was subsequently abandoned in favour of one from Stovax, only to be replaced by one from Yeoman. And this is not to mention hours and hours of research undertaken in the first place to arrive at all those decision!
On the stove’s order placement a one-week leadtime turned out to be a three-months leadtime as both Yeoman and Stovax had suddenly decided to “improve their stoves based on customer feedback”… Charnwood, being another British (Isle of Weight) manufacturer decided to play its fowl card too with deliveries scheduled for the end of November… Desperation was setting in as we trawled the Net in search of a stove that would do the job without compromising the looks. After a few agonising days our chimney components supplier suggested a Morso stove DB15. There was one caveat – the stove was so new – the marketing art work had just gone off into print and there were no any other brochures or datasheets to look at! Based on the art work drafts with limited spec, we decided to bite the bullet and placed our order. By the first week of November we will be the proud owners of two stoves: a Morso DB15 and a Stovax Riva Duplex… I just hope we get them before we turn into icicles!!!! It is also of great help that Stovesavers (our chimney and stoves supplier) are running a 12-months 0% APR with a 40% deposit promo…
As far as the house build progress is concerned, we had completed most of the brick-work last week. There may be a few finishing touches to do for a day in the next few weeks, but nothing major. Tomorrow will see me insulating the last of the flat roofs, by which point all our roofs will be fully insulated with the flat roofs to be finished off with ply, OSB, fibreglass and resin, before green sedum plants go on. Unfortunately that is not the last of the EcoTherm insulation we see. We are yet to order and install tonnes more as floor insulation, to go below underfloor heating and screed.
Last weekend also saw the very last of the steels welded in place for the glazed roof section. I am in great anticipation of all the glass going in before the end of November. Can’t wait!
The chippies are busy working on our new porch and getting all the fascias in place. Today also was a great milestone as the very first of the slates went onto the roof, hooray! 🙂
And as a bonus, we finally reclaimed some of our normality back in the form of a drive-way, which no longer hosts a huge pile of sand and our front garden, following the last of the muck-away visits to take away the remainder of the rubble of what used to be the old house to make space for the Ollibees.
The next couple of weeks will be occupied with research on flat-roofing, floor insulation, underfloor heating and external wall timber cladding. Tasks-wise, pitched-roofs roofing and heating system set-up will take priority, including solar thermal panels installation, heat store installation and pipe work lay-out. All I hope for at the moment is that in two-weeks time I will have had a hot showering when I write our next blog post 😉
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Five weeks on and definitley going very well.
To light we’ve found putting enough kindling in to ensure the flue gets up to 100C at least. Leave the door ajar. Start fuelling with large sticks about 30mm and again leave the door ajar. Once this is burning well shut the door with the top vent fully open. Slowly add fuel and off you go.
NEVER just open the door, you’ll risk loosing your eyebrows and fill the room with smoke. Crack the door and hold it ajar for a few seconds (you’ll hear the roar). this results in no smoke or sparks coming out of the door.
Hi John, thank you for sharing your technique!
Just had installed a DB15 and having all sorts of problems.
Smoke in the room, flames pouring out whilst fuelling it and dirty water on the hearth.
Morso being incredibly helpful. and assure me it’s all down to flue design/temperature.
They have admitted it’s a sensitive beast.
Flue being modified later today so lets see how we get on.
Had it running properly a couple of times and it’s fantastic.
Work in Progress
Hi John,
Sounds like you indeed may have some issue with the flue insulation and not enough draw… good luck and let us know how you get on!
Flue extended 1.2m and that seems to have done the trick.
It’s training us!
On damp muggy evenings it can be tricky to keep the flue temperature up but putting a few bits of joinery waste in there which burn hot and fast and off you go.
At the moment having to manage using all the heat carefully until Central heating finished (probably tomorrow) then we’re ready for winter.
Yes she’s a tricky beast but once mastered WOW.
Hi Pete,
Please see the latest update on the stove in our last post : https://www.ollibees.com/2014/02/06/moving-goal-posts/
We are happy to chat further over email or phone, so feel free to submit your contact details in the About Us section of this blog.
Hi
Could you possibly let me know how you are getting on with the Morso DB15 stove as I would like to get one of these but am reluctant having read comments on its performance earlier in the year.
Cheers
Andy
Hi Andy, the stove works brilliantly these days! Lit it up last weekend for the first time since last winter and it’s in perfect working order, lighting up quickly and performing really well with good heat output to the room and to the water. All in all, very happy with it so far! Is there any specific aspect that you would like to find out about?
Hello,
Does anyone have any updates on the morso db 15..
Have been thinking of one of these to replace a charnwood slx, but above comments are concerning.
Regards pete.
Hi,
Very interesting article and comments. I am myself trying to come with a financially doable as well as efficient and sustainable (!) plan for our house in France where we are going to go and live with my family (an old barn with 4 rooms on one floor) and intend to go for a jupiter underfloor heating, 2 solar panels and a wood stove boiler with a thermal store.
Everything I have read makes me belief that the principle is good and that with the right components and installation , it is great…BUT, installation, even done by pros seem very tough to get right, and choosing the parts is nightmarish! The DB15 is in my list….on paper , it looks very efficient and the possibility to burn joinery waste could be a big plus for us. But I have yet to find a positive review about it,and wondered if you have an update on your own story?
Many thanks,
Dom
Julia, thank you for your frank feedback – it has helped me make my decision, which although the Morso looks great, performance & reliability is ultimately my main prioirity & given that i need a stove for a property in Spain, should there be any problems its not a risk i can take. Like you, i’m suprised that Morso haven’t ironed out any issues before releasing the stove to market.I hope your problems with it get resolved quickly.
Good luck & thank you, Tim
Hi,
It’s Tom (from the Dee and Tom comments above!). Just read you latest comments about possible performance issues, wrt being first of the model etc. Pity to hear this. We are due to get our DB15 installation started this Wednesday, is there any additional info you might give us to help us? We are willing to call you to discuss at an agreed time if possible.
Thanks,
Tom.
Hi Tom
If you could fill in our contact form ten we will give you a call or email re DB15 its a litte more private that way
Tom , hi if you fill in our contact page Julia or I will contact you directly
malcolm
HI,
we to are looking at theDB15 for our house in Spain, but could not find any reviews now i know why, so new. could you tell us what the problems you are having are.
thanks
Tim
Hi tim
The stove looks great but we have one of the first off the production line which it seems has a few issues, Morso have been good so far and have offered a replacement unit and to cover costs of replacement installation so we will wait and see what prevails over the next week or so.
I think it may be unfair to judge the quality on the one we have so i will let you know once the replacement is in and working
If you fill in our contact form I am happy to communicate through email or phone
Malcolm
Hi Tim
It may be easier if you fill in our contact page and either Julia or myself will contact you via email or telephone directly.
Basically Morso are replacing our stove as it had some manufacturing issues, it was the first in the country …they have been very responsive and helpful so cannot fault the company although a little frustrated the error was not spotted in Quality control …the stove looks great ..and has the potential of being great ..lets wait and see once we get replacement
Hi,
I’ve read your article and just wondered if you have installed the DB15 yet and how is it performing? We have one on order and are waiting patiently for delivery.
Good luck,
Dee & Tom
Hi Dee & Tom,
Good stove choice! 🙂 the stove went into the hearth yesterday, which was later than anticipated. Following our installer’s visit earlier this week we were advised to extend the concrete base of our hearth by another 20cm to comply with the build regs (we originally planed for a smaller Charnwood Cove 2B stove when the hearth was being built). The total hearth depth is now 96cm which allows for enough room at the back for plumbing (13cm) and at the front (38cm) should a burning log fall out when opening a door.
The stove was connected to the flue last night and our plumber has been working on plumbing it up to the thermal heat store yesterday and today. Tuesday the stove installer shall return to do all the seals with fireproof concrete, paint the flue and do the smoke test before we can fire it up. Until then we have to stick with the gas heater, whilst the Morso is teasing us from out the hearth! 🙂
A few tips: the stove is well build and solid and very very heavy (and very beautiful 🙂 ). Make sure you have a few strong guys to move it into the house when it’s delivered! Also, if have not looked into it yet – start looking into booking a HETAS dry and wet appliance qualified stove installer to get all the boxes ticked. We were lucky to find someone very local who can fit us around his other jobs, but otherwise there are very few wet appliance installers around (you can find them on HETAS official website), and also whether it’s a seasonal trend or just bad luck – almost every one installer I called in our area was booked up until January/February next year!
Cannot comment on performance yet, but will definitely make a note on it in the next blog post, so watch this space.
I believe we are the first customer in the whole of Europe to receive the stove, you must be the second :). Enjoy it!
Julia
Hi julia I have found your blog very intresting with regard to the morso db15 and thinking of ordering one myself . Would you be as kind of telling us how you have been getting on with it and how it is perfoming. We have looked at many boiler stoves but my wife has fallen in love with this particular one. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Regards nick
Hi Nick,
the stove LOOKS AMAZING… Simple sleek design, lovely!
I cannot however at this stage say the same about the performance…. mainly because we got one of the very first stoves from the first batch, not without… been in product marketing, know how these things work and what it’s like….
We have been talking to Morso at the top level to get some of the issues rectified. Someone is going to come out from Morso to fix the stove.
I will email you my boyfriend’s phone number – he will explain to you exactly the sticky points at this stage.
All I am hoping is that by the time I am ready to write our new blog post – all I can say is only the positives 😉
kind regards
Julia
Hi there, very interested in this conversation. I too had a db15 install in the lead up to Christmas, I’ve had smoke billowing into the room when its lit, it appeared constantly oxygen starved, installer contacted morso who said it might be one they had ‘forgotten’ to fit a seal too so they sent fitter a seal which is now in place yet it still smokes, flames leap from the front when you open the door, radiators get tepid at best and heat output to room is equivalent ta 100watt light bulb. Don’t know what to do, any suggestions please email or happy to talk on phone. I’ve spent a small fortune on this once in a lifetime building project and I don’t have resources to dump this useless pile of metal and start again, I could just cry…………… Sally
We have solar thermal panels just round the corner from you at the south end of Sunnydown Road, and I think you are being a bit optimistic when you refer to it as ‘available all year round’. I would say you would need to use other sources at least 50% of the year. Our panels make a contribution for much more than that, but they are only likely to be your sole source for April- September at best, and then only when it is bright or sunny. But good on you for going for so much renewable energy.
Overall, we are enjoying watching (and hearing!) your progress. I hope you will have an ‘open day’ so we can come and see the final result!
Good luck,
Chris
Hi Chris,
thank you for your message. Always interesting to hear how other people get on with their eco investments!
Just out of interest, would you be able to share what panels you are using (manufacturer and model number) in order to compare the spec with the ones we’ve just installed?…
It would be great to get completely off the grid and stop using fossil fuel for heating (and electricity), but it looks like we are still some light year away from it, regardless of all the promos, ads and PR! Last week proved to us that even though the combo heating system we’ve designed works on paper and everyone is happy to sell us their components to integrate into the system – in practice no one single manufacturer wants to take on the responsibility and liability in case anything goes wrong 🙁 I would have thought that after so many years of these technologies being available in the market and used widely on the continent and in the Nordics we in the UK would have caught up with it by now…
On another note, glad we can provide some entertainment for our neighbours, and not just nuisance! 😀 Our house is an “open house” all day every day – so feel free to pop in any time!
Hi Julia,
Our panels are the flat sort, made by Worcester-Bosch, and about 4 sq m in total. I can’t tell you any more than that, as they were fitted by a contractor who has since gone bust! They heat our 99 litre DHW tank very well in the warmer months. As our roof was rebuilt, they are fitted directly onto the rafters, instead of tiles rather than on top of tiles, and this looks much better, if you can do it. Their colour almost exactly matches our tiles, which helps.
I entirely agree about the difficulty of finding people prepared to look after relatively complex installations using new technology; we are trying to find someone ourselves. We have an air source heat pump which has quite complex software, and I think people are wary of this.
If you’d like to pop round and see/talk about our systems you’d be more than welcome; just drop me an email and we’ll arrange a time.